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Attorney Page Pate, who has been a criminal defense attorney for over 25 years, frequently serves as a legal analyst to several media outlets. When high profile cases or important legal issues appear in the news, the media will contact Page for his opinions and analysis. Of particular interest for the past year and half, has been the case involving the murder of Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, Georgia. Page has been contacted by the media numerous times throughout the various stages of the case to discuss the proceedings.

In this interview, Page was contacted by WJXT – News4Jax to discuss the jury deliberations at the conclusion of the trial of the three men charged in the death of Mr. Arbery. Midway through the first day of deliberations, the jury requested to re-review certain pieces of evidence that were presented during the trial. The jury requested to see the cell phone video of the shooting of Mr. Arbery and to hear the 911 call made by Greg McMichael regarding his report of “a black man running down the street.”

News4Jax asks Page what he thinks about the jury’s request to hear the 911 call. Page explains that the “911 call was critical to the prosecution in their closing argument. They basically said, look…they asked what the emergency was. And according to Greg McMichael, the emergency was that there’s a black man in the neighborhood. So that was critical to their argument that this was not a citizen’s arrest, it was not self-defense. This was murder.” Page further explains that “by the jury asking to hear that again, clearly, there are some people on the jury who think that’s critical, that evidence is important, but maybe there’s one or two people who aren’t so sure. And so the jury wanted to come back in and say, “Hey, listen to this tape again, you can hear what he’s saying. And that should show his intent.””

Regarding the cell phone video of the shooting of Mr. Arbery, Page says that the likely explanation for the jury requesting to see it again is probably due to “some disagreement,” and not because they are trying to figure out what happened. He also says that “we don’t know, at this point, whether half of the jury think it’s self-defense, half think it’s murder, or it’s just one or two people that the others are trying to convince. But when there’s disagreement, the only way to get past that is to look at the evidence again, so it makes sense to me.” Page explains that it is difficult to know whether these questions or possible disagreement are good for the defense or the prosecution because “What we don’t know is the breakdown. I mean, how many people see it differently? What is the disagreement? And sometimes, in state cases in Georgia, the judge will ask them. And they’ll say, “Well, we’re six-six,” you know, “We’re tired,” or, “We’re 11-1 not guilty,” or, “11-1 guilty.” We don’t know that breakdown.”

Lastly, Page is asked when he thinks a verdict will come. He explains that “it’s impossible to know what’s going on in that jury room,” and says that he does think that there will be a verdict today, “because they can be close and still have disagreement.” Page emphasizes that “if it’s just one or two, maybe they’re just trying to get past those two or convince those two and be done with the case. I still think it’ll happen today.”

TRANSCRIPT:

Announcer: Live from the local station, News4JAX starts now.

Bruce: Three men charged with murder and the death of the Ahmaud Arbery awaiting the jury’s decision. They are deciding their fate as deliberations stretch into day two. While the jury debates the case against these three men, Ahmaud Arbery’s family and a group of supporters gathered outside the courtroom. The case centers around the claim from Greg McMichael, his son Travis, and their neighbor William Roddie Bryan, that they shot Arbery in self-defense.

The local station is monitoring the situation inside the courtroom and out. We begin with News4JAX anchor Tarik Minor, who’s live. And Tarik, the jurors asked to see the video of Arbery’s shooting.

Tarik: Yeah, Bruce, the jury started deliberating right around 8:36 this morning. And this is a very significant development, the jurors asking to see the cell phone video that was shot by William Bryan, both the short version, the original version, and the enhanced video. And they wanted to see it three times. And they also requested to listen to the 911 call from Gregory McMichael, and a very important portion of this 911 call, the very beginning of it, where Gregory McMichael says, “There is a black man running down the street.”

Joining us now to talk about what this could mean for this case and where the verdict is, is local criminal attorney, Page Pate, who’s not associated with this case. Your take, let’s start with the 911 call. What is your take on what the jury could be considering and discussing at this point?

Page: Well, if you remember, that 911 call was critical to the prosecution in their closing argument. They basically said, look…they asked what the emergency was. And according to Greg McMichael, the emergency was that there’s a black man in the neighborhood. So that was critical to their argument that this was not a citizen’s arrest, it was not self-defense. This was murder. And so by the jury asking to hear that again, clearly, there are some people on the jury who think that’s critical, that evidence is important, but maybe there’s one or two people who aren’t so sure. And so the jury wanted to come back in and say, “Hey, listen to this tape again, you can hear what he’s saying. And that should show his intent.”

Tarik: And then the video, they saw the video many times throughout the trial. But to review that video again and watch it three times, what does that tell you?

Page: Well, same thing. They’re not trying to figure out what happened. I mean, like you said, they’ve seen the video, we’ve all seen the video by this point. But it’s probably some disagreement. And we don’t know, at this point, whether half of the jury think it’s self-defense, half think it’s murder, or it’s just one or two people that the others are trying to convince. But when there’s disagreement, the only way to get past that is to look at the evidence again, so it makes sense to me.

Tarik: And last night, it appeared as if they were close to a verdict. At 6:00, the judge came back and said, “Let’s break for the night.” And one of the jurors said, “We are working towards a verdict.” With that said, and then what’s happened today, do you think that a verdict will come today? Or perhaps they’ll come back after Thanksgiving?

Page: I mean, it’s impossible to know what’s going on in that jury room. But I still think we’ll get a verdict today because they can be close and still have disagreement. Again, if it’s just one or two, maybe they’re just trying to get past those two or convince those two and be done with the case. I still think it’ll happen today.

Tarik: These questions that they want to review the evidence, does it seem as if it’s working in the prosecution’s favor or the defense’s favor?

Page: What we don’t know is the breakdown. I mean, how many people see it differently? What is the disagreement? And sometimes, in state cases in Georgia, the judge will ask them. And they’ll say, “Well, we’re six-six,” you know, “We’re tired,” or, “We’re 11-1 not guilty,” or, “11-1 guilty.” We don’t know that breakdown. And that’s why it’s hard to tell whether this is good for the prosecution or good for the defense.

Tarik: Pretty intense and anxious moments for all those involved, not only the jurors but those defendants. In your experience, what do you think’s going on?

Page: And the lawyers too, don’t forget that. I mean, it’s the most stressful time for a lawyer. Obviously, you’re not the one who’s facing life in prison, so we understand for the defendants and for the family, for the Arbery family, of course. Anxious. Every time you hear from the judge, “The jury is coming in,” you don’t know whether it’s a verdict, a question, they want to see evidence. It’s a very stressful time.

Tarik: All right. Mr. Pate, we certainly do appreciate your insight.

Page: Thank you.

Tarik: There is a lot going on here at…

Attorney Page Pate, a criminal defense attorney who is also recognized as a legal analyst, continues to follow the trial of the 3 men accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery in Brunswick, Georgia in 2020. Page has been contacted by numerous media outlets to discuss the case and the trial, which is taking place in Glynn County, Georgia.

Here, CNN and Page discuss the trial testimony of Travis McMichael, the man who shot Mr. Arbery. Page is asked how Mr. McMichael’s self-defense claim may be impacted by the fact that he had the gun and went after Mr. Arbery first. Page explains that “it’s going to be difficult to prove that self-defense is an appropriate defense here. I think it’s gonna be difficult to prove that they had a legal justification for citizen’s arrest.” Page also comments on Mr. McMichael’s testimony overall and how the prosecutor handled it, saying that he thinks Travis McMichael “did a very good job on the witness stand. I think he was well-prepared, I think this was well-rehearsed, and I think he caught the prosecutor flat-footed. I do not think she was expecting him to take the stand, and I think her initial cross-examination was weak. It was unfocused. She has got to come back this morning and focus in on the key points. Your training and experience? What training and experience? Did you really have a reason to believe that Ahmaud Arbery had committed a felony offense? She has got to be aggressive. Otherwise, this jury’s gonna be left with the impression that this was a reasonable person doing something to protect the neighborhood, because right now, given the makeup of this jury, I think that’s what they believe. So she has a huge challenge ahead of her today.”

Page is also asked about the State of Georgia’s Citizen’s Arrest Law, which was in force at the time of Mr. Arbery’s murder but has since been repealed, and whether it changes the standard when the jury considers self-defense in this case. Page tells CNN that “The citizen’s arrest law never talked about deadly force one way or the other.” He explains that the Citizen’s Arrest Law was “a two-step process” and says that “If Travis McMichael and Greg McMichael had a legitimate legal reason to pursue Ahmaud Arbery, if they were conducting a legitimate citizen’s arrest, in other words, if they either saw him commit a crime, or had direct knowledge that he committed a felony, then they could pursue him and detain him. And if they were legally doing that, and there was a struggle, and Travis McMichael felt himself in imminent danger of being killed by Ahmaud Arbery, then yes, he could use self-defense. But those are two huge obstacles that the defense will have to convince the jury, that they were legally authorized to take.”

Regarding these two obstacles, CNN asks Page why he thinks it would be such a huge obstacle to say that the Defendants were in fact making a citizen’s arrest. Page explains that “if the judge instructs the jury at the end of the trial, like I expect him to, that a citizen’s arrest is not legal unless you actually see the person commit a crime, or you know that this was a felony offense… So, it’s kind of a two-part analysis as well. And there is insufficient evidence right now. I mean, we’ve seen the videos, we’ve seen surveillance, we’ve heard from neighbors. He was hanging around this house under construction, but no one accuses him of committing a crime. So even if they saw him that day in the house, they didn’t have a legal basis to pursue him for citizen’s arrest.”

TRANSCRIPT:

Erica: Also with us now, criminal defense attorney Page Pate. Page, good to have you back with us this morning. We heard a little bit from Martin about what we heard on the stand yesterday. Travis McMichael, as we know, says he was acting in self defense. I want to play a little bit more of one of the exchanges.

Travis: I didn’t know where I was at, but I knew that he was on me. I knew that I was losing this. I knew that if I was getting tripped, if I would have tripped, or if he would have got a lucky strike on my head, or if I would have have lost that grip on that shotgun, that I would have been shot or I would have been in serious trouble at that point. I knew that he was overpowering me. But I didn’t know which direction or what mechanics he was doing to overpower me.

Erica: So, Page, Ahmaud Arbery isn’t alive to tell us how he felt in that moment or the moments leading up to it, but we do know is he didn’t start this encounter. So, when we look at the facts here, the fact that Travis McMichael went after Arbery first, and had that gun, how does that impact a self defense claim?

Page: Erica, I think it’s going to be difficult to prove that self defense is an appropriate defense here. I think it’s gonna be difficult to prove that they had a legal justification for citizen’s arrest. But I think Travis McMichael did a very good job on the witness stand. I think he was well-prepared, I think this was well-rehearsed, and I think he caught the prosecutor flat-footed. I do not think she was expecting him to take the stand, and I think her initial cross-examination was weak. It was unfocused. She has got to come back this morning and focus in on the key points. Your training and experience? What training and experience? Did you really have a reason to believe that Ahmaud Arbery had committed a felony offense? She has got to be aggressive. Otherwise, this jury’s gonna be left with the impression that this was a reasonable person doing something to protect the neighborhood, because right now, given the makeup of this jury, I think that’s what they believe. So she has a huge challenge ahead of her today.

Jim: Remarkable analysis. Central to this, of course, is the question of the legal standard for self defense. And I wonder, does Georgia’s citizen’s arrest law, which has since been largely repealed, but was the law of the land at the time, does it change the standard as jurors approach this question of self defense?

Page: I mean, that’s a great question, Jim. The citizen’s arrest law never talked about deadly force one way or the other. But it is a two-step process. If Travis McMichael and Greg McMichael had a legitimate legal reason to pursue Ahmaud Arbery, if they were conducting a legitimate citizen’s arrest, in other words, if they either saw him commit a crime, or had direct knowledge that he committed a felony, then they could pursue him and detain him. And if they were legally doing that, and there was a struggle, and Travis McMichael felt himself in imminent danger of being killed by Ahmaud Arbery, then yes, he could use self defense. But those are two huge obstacles that the defense will have to convince the jury, that they were legally authorized to take.

Erica: And just weigh in on that, if you could, dig a little deeper on that point for us. In terms of that being a huge obstacle, why in this case do you think it is such a huge obstacle for them to say, “Yes, we were…this was legitimately a citizen’s arrest?”

Page: Because if the judge instructs the jury at the end of the trial, like I expect him to, that a citizen’s arrest is not legal unless you actually see the person commit a crime, or you know that this was a felony offense… So, it’s kind of a two-part analysis as well. And there is insufficient evidence right now. I mean, we’ve seen the videos, we’ve seen surveillance, we’ve heard from neighbors. He was hanging around this house under construction, but no one accuses him of committing a crime. So even if they saw him that day in the house, they didn’t have a legal basis to pursue him for citizen’s arrest.

Jim: The question of probable cause there. Page Pate, great to have you on. Appreciate you sharing your experience.

Page: Thank you.

Pate, Johnson & Church has been representing people in the State of Georgia who have been charged with serious crimes for over 25 years. Attorney Page Pate has been closely following the case involving the 2020 murder of Ahmaud Arbery in Brunswick, Georgia and has been contacted numerous times by the media to provide his opinions and analysis of the ongoing case and the trial of the 3 men charged with the murder of Mr. Arbery.

CNN contacted Page to discuss the opening statements made by the lawyers for the defendants and the State of Georgia during the trial. Page is asked which side he thinks made the best argument in their opening statements. Page responds that he thinks “both sides started out with very strong opening statements,” and further explains that “we knew coming into this trial what the prosecution would say. They would focus on the video. They would focus on the fact that there’s absolutely no evidence that Ahmad Arbery was committing any crime. They would focus on what the McMichaels said there at the scene, all to support the prosecution’s case that this was cold-blooded murder. But what we heard today, really for the first time, from the defense was a very different narrative of what happened. They tried to create some doubt that, “Hey, Mr. Arbery was in the neighborhood before.” Maybe, at least from the McMichaels’ standpoint, he was committing a crime. So they were trying to present at least some alternative to suggest that their clients were justified not just in chasing them down but then approaching him, confronting him, and ultimately shooting him.”

Next, Page is asked what the impact on the trial may be of the Judge’s ruling that the defense attorneys cannot discuss Mr. Arbery’s probation status and that the prosecutor can show the Confederate flag vanity plate that was on Defendant Travis McMichael’s truck. Page says that he thinks “the probation issue is very important, especially the way it turned out that this jury was selected and seated.” Page also comments that “we’ve got 11 white people on this jury, 1 African-American. I think the idea from the defense side of showing that Mr. Arbery was on probation, maybe that gave him a reason to try to run through the neighborhood. Don’t completely understand the argument, but I know the defense wanted it. On the other side, I don’t know with this jury that this Confederate flag license plate is going to be all that significant. Again, we’re talking about a majority…almost exclusively white jury in Glynn County, and, look, there are Confederate flags on cars in Glynn County. This isn’t the only one. So I don’t know how strong that evidence will be or the state. I don’t know if it’ll change the dynamic, again, given this jury. It is all about the jury in these cases, especially this one.”

Mr. Arbery’s mother avoided watching the video of the murder of her son for 18 months, but finally watched it in the courtroom during the trial. Regarding the video, Page says “It’s incredibly difficult, and it’s hard to imagine. And not only is she going through it personally and with her family, his father has also been at the trial. It’s playing out in front of the community and it’s playing out across the world, and I can’t imagine the pain. But I think the family must appreciate, at least in some way, that there is a video, because, Don, you and I wouldn’t be talking about this case if there was no video…These people would have never been prosecuted if there was no video. So it’s painful, it’s disturbing, but it’s necessary if these cases are going to be prosecuted.”

TRANSCRIPT:

Don: Opening arguments underway in the murder trial of three white men in the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery. The 25-year-old black man was shot in February of 2020 while he was out jogging. An emotional day in court today, Ahmaud Arbery’s mother, Wanda Cooper-Jones, crying when she saw the full video of her son’s shooting and, again, as police bodycam showed her son’s body on the ground.

Joining me now to discuss, criminal defense attorney Page Pate. Page, thank you for joining us. Wow. I mean, it’s…I can’t even imagine. I don’t think any of us can imagine. I appreciate you helping us out with this. The prosecution are laying out their case today outlining what led up to the shooting and why Arbery was running away from the defendant. Listen.

Linda: How do you know Mr. Ahmaud Arbery was under attack by strangers with intent to kill him? Because Greg McMichael told the police this, “Stop or I’ll blow your head off.” That’s what he said to Mr. Arbery. Because he wanna make sure Mr. Arbery knew Greg McMichael was not playing.

Don: So the defense is arguing that the defendants thought that they were protecting their neighborhood, Page, and acting in self-defense. Which side made the better argument today, you think?

Atty. Pate: Well, Don, I will have to admit that I think both sides started out with very strong opening statements. I mean, we knew coming into this trial what the prosecution would say. They would focus on the video. They would focus on the fact that there’s absolutely no evidence that Ahmad Arbery was committing any crime. They would focus on what the McMichaels said there at the scene, all to support the prosecution’s case that this was cold-blooded murder. But what we heard today, really for the first time, from the defense was a very different narrative of what happened. They tried to create some doubt that, “Hey, Mr. Arbery was in the neighborhood before.” Maybe, at least from the McMichaels’ standpoint, he was committing a crime. So they were trying to present at least some alternative to suggest that their clients were justified not just in chasing them down but then approaching him, confronting him, and ultimately shooting him.

Don: I mean, there’s so much to unpack here. I mean, number one, they’re not law enforcement, and number two, what gives them the right to do it? They could have just called police. But anyway, I digress. The judge, I think it’s important to mention the judge ruling on two key motions in this trial today, ruling that the defense will not be allowed to discuss Arbery’s probation status and that the prosecution can show the photos of Travis McMichael’s truck with that Confederate flag vanity plate on it. How could this potentially impact this case, Page?

Atty. Pate: Well, I think the probation issue is very important, especially the way it turned out that this jury was selected and seated. I mean, as you know, we’ve got 11 white people on this jury, 1 African-American. I think the idea from the defense side of showing that Mr. Arbery was on probation, maybe that gave him a reason to try to run through the neighborhood. Don’t completely understand the argument, but I know the defense wanted it. On the other side, I don’t know with this jury that this Confederate flag license plate is going to be all that significant. Again, we’re talking about a majority…almost exclusively white jury in Glynn County, and, look, there are Confederate flags on cars in Glynn County. This isn’t the only one. So I don’t know how strong that evidence will be or the state. I don’t know if it’ll change the dynamic, again, given this jury. It is all about the jury in these cases, especially this one.

Don: Yeah. But all about the video, too, Page, in this case. I mean, that is…you know, that’s probably the key thing here other than the jury. Let’s talk about the mom. We saw the mom, you know, breaking down when she saw that video for the first time and then, you know, saw her son laying there on the ground. The mother, her name is Wanda Cooper-Jones, explaining to reporters today why she stayed in the room while video of the shooting was being played. Listen.

Wanda: I decided to remain in so I can get familiar with what happened to Ahmaud the last minutes of his life. I avoided the video for the last 18 months, and I thought it was time to get familiar with what happened to Ahmaud in the last minutes of his life. So I’m glad I was able to stay strong and stay in there. That’s the first time I saw the video in the entirety.

Don: So we saw, with the family of George Floyd, how these trials can affect families who had to watch the evidence play out over and over, right? And now, she’s going through very similar thing.

Atty. Pate: It’s incredibly difficult, and it’s hard to imagine. And not only is she going through it personally and with her family, his father has also been at the trial. It’s playing out in front of the community and it’s playing out across the world, and I can’t imagine the pain. But I think the family must appreciate, at least in some way, that there is a video, because, Don, you and I wouldn’t be talking about this case if there was no video.

Don: Right.

Atty. Pate: These people would have never been prosecuted if there was no video. So it’s painful, it’s disturbing, but it’s necessary if these cases are going to be prosecuted.

Don: Yeah, very well stated. Look, in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, we are hearing from more witnesses, like journalist Richie McGinnis, about what he saw before Rittenhouse shot and killed Joseph Rosenbaum. Listen to this, Page.

Man: Did you ever see a weapon on Mr. Rosenbaum?

Richie: I did not.

Man: Never saw a gun on Mr. Rosenbaum?

Richie: I did not.

Man: Never saw him have a knife?

Richie: Nope.

Man: Never saw him have a club, or a bat, or a chain, or anything like that?

Richie: I just saw the bag that was thrown. That was it.

Don: So another witness testifying that Rosenbaum was belligerent that night. What stands out to you from what you heard today?

Atty. Pate: Well, belligerent but not a threat. I think that was very important that came across in that witness’s testimony that, you know, he was there, he was also there for the same reason that Kyle Rittenhouse says he was there to protect businesses and the community. And even though this person may have been acting out, may have seemed to be odd and stranger, he did not present a threat, certainly not a threat that justified the use of deadly force.

Don: Yeah. Well, Page, we’ll be watching both of these trials, very interesting ones, and you’ll be here to help us out. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Atty. Pate: Thank you, Don.

Pate, Johnson & Church has been representing clients facing serious criminal charges in state and federal court for over 25 years. Attorney Page Pate often serves as a legal analyst to various media outlets that contact him to discuss significant cases being reported on.

In this case, CBS46 Atlanta contacted Page to discuss jury selection in Glynn County, Georgia for the trial of the men accused of the murder of Ahmaud Arbery in Brunswick, Georgia in 2020.

Page is first asked about the legal decision made to not request that the case be moved to another jurisdiction for trial, and whether or not it will be challenging to find a fair and impartial jury in the community that Mr. Arbery and the defendants lived in. Page says that based on what he has seen so far, “it’s going to be pretty difficult.” He further explains that “…in Glynn County, the Clark’s office has sent summons out to 1,000 different people. They had 600 people show up in different groups today and they’re questioning them 20 people at a time, number one, to see if they can find people who still do not have an opinion about the case. I think the defense would like to stay in Glynn County if at all possible because their clients have ties here, people know them. And ultimately, the judge is not looking for someone who’s never heard of the case because if you try to do that here, really anywhere, it’s gonna be hard to find. What the judge is looking for are people who have not made up their mind. And I think with that many jury summons going out, we’re gonna be able to pick an unbiased jury for this case.”

Regarding the video of Mr. Arbery’s murder, Page is asked how important that video will be to the outcome of the case. Page says that he doesn’t believe that there “would be a case without that video,” and says he thinks “it was clear that the people who were in charge of the investigation at the time before the video came out, they were not gonna bring any criminal charges. I don’t think we would be here but for that video. The video is clearly going to be critical evidence in the case. I think the defense is going to try to deal with it by trying to explain that their clients were engaged in a citizen’s arrest. But it’s gonna be really tough, I think, for the jury to get past what they’re seeing in that video and not feel some connection to Ahmaud Arbery and feel very bad about the tragic circumstances that ended his life.”

In addition to the charges in Glynn County, Georgia, the men accused of Mr. Arbery’s murder will also face charges in federal court, as did the men accused of the murder of George Floyd. Page is asked if he thinks this sets a precedent for future incidents of black people being killed by the police or other individuals. Page thinks that it could, and says he thinks based on the actions of the current administration and Attorney General Merrick Garland, we are seeing “a much more aggressive campaign to charge people with hate crimes and to prosecute them. I don’t think this is one of cases where the feds are coming in as a fall back. If they’re not convicted in the state case, we’ll try them in the federal case. The federal trial has already been set for February and I think it’s gonna go forward whether these people are convicted here in Glynn County or not.”

TRANSCRIPT:

Tracye: Jury selection is currently under way in the Ahmaud Arbery murder trial. The 25-year-old unarmed black man was shot and killed last year in South Georgia. Three white men are charged with Arbery’s murder. Joining us now is Page Pate, an attorney with more than 25 years of experience in criminal defense and civil litigation.

Rick: We’re glad you’re with us, Page. And we look forward to tapping into your expertise during this trial. Let’s start with the decision not to move the trial out of South Georgia. A lot of people had thought that there might be a request for that. How difficult will it be to find a fair and impartial jury in the community where Arbery as well as his accused killers lived?

Page: Well, I think, based on what we’ve seen so far, it’s going to be pretty difficult. But here in Glynn County, the Clark’s office has sent summons out to 1,000 different people. They had 600 people show up in different groups today and they’re questioning them 20 people at a time, number one, to see if they can find people who still do not have an opinion about the case. I think the defense would like to stay in Glynn County if at all possible because their clients have ties here, people know them. And ultimately, the judge is not looking for someone who’s never heard of the case because if you try to do that here, really anywhere, it’s gonna be hard to find. What the judge is looking for are people who have not made up their mind. And I think with that many jury summons going out, we’re gonna be able to pick an unbiased jury for this case.

Tracye: And Page, we were just showing some video there, a lot of the video that many of us saw that really sparked this investigation and sparked the arrest, the video shot by William “Roodie” Bryan. How pivotal will that piece of video be in this case? And it’s hard to imagine how different this case would be without that video.

Page: Tracye, I don’t think there would be a case without that video. I think it was clear that the people who were in charge of the investigation at the time before the video came out, they were not gonna bring any criminal charges. I don’t think we would be here but for that video. The video is clearly going to be critical evidence in the case. I think the defense is going to try to deal with it by trying to explain that their clients were engaged in a citizen’s arrest. But it’s gonna be really tough, I think, for the jury to get past what they’re seeing in that video and not feel some connection to Ahmaud Arbery and feel very bad about the tragic circumstances that ended his life.

Rick: We think about the George Floyd case, Page, and regardless of what happens in Glynn County, Arbery’s accused killers, just like Floyd’s, will also face federal charges. Does this set a precedent for future trials involving black people who are killed by police or people taking the law into their own hands?

Page: Well, it could, Rick. I think what we’re seeing from the current administration, especially the Attorney General Merrick Garland, is a much more aggressive campaign to charge people with hate crimes and to prosecute them. I don’t think this is one of cases where the feds are coming in as a fall back. If they’re not convicted in the state case, we’ll try them in the federal case. The federal trial has already been set for February and I think it’s gonna go forward whether these people are convicted here in Glynn County or not.

Tracye: Page Pate, our CBS 46 legal analyst. Page, thank you. Always a wealth of knowledge and we look forward to you guiding us through this trial.

Rick: Thanks, Page. Still ahead at 5:00.